Joe Rodriguez-EP8

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hello everyone and welcome to the Sound of Podcast. It's your host, Steven. We're talking to Maryland musicians here, and on the show we have Mr. Joe Rodriguez. I Met Joe last year would have been in December. He was playing guitar for Clara Lane, who we also had on the show. Joe has lived quite the life from his humble beginnings in Hell's Kitchen to Florida to his almost 20-year stint in Flocka Seagulls. We talk about that and so much more on Sound of the Podcast. I read an interview that you did in 2015. I forget the publication. It was it was on the internet. But you said you grew up in New York in Hell's Kitchen and you were a metal guy with your kiss and your priest and your maiden. Oh yeah. So I wanna I wanna jump into that because I'm also I'm I'm very much maiden. Uh I like priests too. But do you remember some of those those records or what was your kind of first exposure with with those bands?

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Um my best friend in grade school actually was the guy who turned me on to kiss because his you know back back in the day it was just like those posters, you know, bigger than life. And they were like musical superheroes. And and of course, being in New York, um friend of a friend, uh, you know, like of my best friend, um she had a cousin, I think, that actually worked at Casablanca Records. So she we were kind of, you know, teen boyfriend, girlfriend situation. And she got me an autograph picture of them, which I still have to this day, which is which is really cool. Um but yeah, that was you know, that was how it started. He had the albums and and I was exposed to that. And that was I mean, that was early on, like when I was like 14-ish or so.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Were you playing guitar by then?

SPEAKER_03 2:22

No, no, actually, like more more like 12 years old, I guess, because that was you know the end of my uh New York life. But um I got into when we ended up moving to Central Florida, I that's when I started getting into like the maiden and the priest and stuff, because I had met some I had already started playing guitar, and my some friends that I met were like, Hey, you play guitar, that's awesome. I'm putting together a band and you should play. And I'm like, Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

So Was it immediately electric that you gravitated towards or you did acoustic stuff?

SPEAKER_03 3:03

Actually, the funny thing is the funny thing is when toward the end of the New York thing, you know, we we lived in an old brownstone in Hill's kitchen, and my dad had an old like ampek' home stereo, and I figured out that you could, you know, they had like microphones that you could plug into the tape deck, and then I also figured out, um, hey, if I if I turned the recording level up to 11, then it would distort. So I took the mic and dumped it inside of my dad's classical guitar and and went rhym! I was like, oh, this sounds like kiss, awesome. And my dad's in the background going, don't break the stereo.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

No distortion pedal needed, though. You did it up.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

No, it was all it was all pure uh pure amp distortion. Yeah. Um, but that's kind of you know, the that sort of was the spark for, you know, electrified sounds. And um, and then when I, you know, when I ended up in Florida, it was garage metal band, you know, just doing things like raiding the uh the dumpster of the local uh carpet dealership and you know getting getting old ratty carpet and nailing it up on a warehouse wall and playing too loud till all hours of the night and cops banging on the door and you know noise complaints and you know, just the the typical, you know, could could easily be a could easily be a coming of age movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Do you remember kind of the first songs that you were trying to to figure out with those records?

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Um, well, I mean, so when I first when I first started figuring out songs, I was that was definitely in Florida time. And um what did I have? I had ACDC. Um, you know, so like back in black and um, you know, just this the the typical thing. Like I didn't have so when we moved to Florida, I didn't didn't have anybody that I knew. And when I left New York, the last thing I was doing was taking piano lessons. So my mom was like, oh, okay, well, when we get when we move down to Florida, we gotta find you a new piano teacher. And I was like, I don't know that I want to stick with piano, you know. Well mom, here's the thing. Well, I was like more interested in in in exploring this crunchy acoustic guitar thing, you know. Um, but yeah, I remember uh moving the needle on the record numerous times and hunting and pecking for notes and stuff, and you developing my ear, and there wasn't, I mean it was it wasn't necessarily rural, but the town that I was in was not super cultural, and um there was one tiny little mama pop music store, and nobody there taught anything that I liked, so I didn't I was just like I guess I'm going going at it on my own.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Alright, you had to bugger off to your room to to do it, right?

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Yeah, pretty, pretty much. I mean, yeah, I was in I was in the living room annoying my parents, you know, like moving the needle on an ACDC. Like I remember I remember learning uh Hell's Bells. And I've moved the needle like a ton of times just to just to figure out the notes in Hell's Bells. And um what else? Like like the first Van Halen stuff, you know, first Van Halen albums, and then um like my favorite Kiss album at the time was Love Gun. So, you know, any of the stuff off of Love Gun, that was that was my main stuff.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

And was it something about that sound that you were chasing of of the distorted guitars and just the way that it it sounded that you were trying to emulate, or or was it you know you know what well do you know, I mean sure, I'm sure if you if you ask a ton of teenage boys that picked up guitar, you know, if they're gonna be honest, 90% of them are gonna go, well, I wanted to get girls because you know, because girls like guys that play guitar.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

But um, and there was some of that, you know, uh when I was like 16.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

But um the the real thing was when I like my dad, my first concert ever was it while we were in New York, and my dad actually bought tickets to kiss at Madison Square Garden. So I'm 12 years old, and and and we were like not in the absolute nosebleed seats, but we were like one level below, and we were as far away from the stage as you know, like we were uh you know perpendicular with the stage. And I remember the lights went out, and then Paul Stanley like chunked his guitar like that, and I still it was so loud that I felt like the amp was right here, like an inch from my face, and I was like, oh my god, and then my dad got scared, and then and then they started, and I was like just the power, you know, you don't you don't realize like you know, like if you're watching a uh if you're watching a concert like that on a video, you know, you're getting some sort of microphone feed, but if you're there and somebody chick-chucks their guitar and uh every air molecule in the in the stadium just goes like that, you know, and rattles your guts.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

That sound.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Yeah, that's you know, that's a hard um that uh who is it? Uh David Gilmore said, you know, if you if you play guitar, if you're standing in front of guitar amp and you play your guitar and it the air moves the the the pants, you know, of your of your on your leg, that's a hard drug to kick, you know. And I feel like there is a whole generation of players that don't can't relate to that, you know, because everything now is very virtual, everything now is very, you know, plug your rig direct into a PA, silent stages, things like that. And to me, that that air moving, you know, when somebody kicks a bass drum and it goes, it feels like they're kicking you in the chest.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

And the sound check, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Yeah, that's to me that's live music, you know. To me, that's you know, what is the thing that makes it what is the thing that makes it better than just listening to the record, you know, is is literally physically getting moved by the music because the air is kicking you in the stomach. And that's you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

I I think Dave Grohl had said that I I think he was more talking about the American Idol generation of singers, which is fine and no disrespect to them, but I I think he was talking about that it if you want to play music, be in a band and start a band and in a garage somewhere and and suck, you know, for a long time or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Suck until you don't suck.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

But how how were growing up in Florida, how were you able to find some some confidants or some uh brothers in arms to to play music with?

SPEAKER_03 11:01

You know what's weird is is I was doing my moving the needle on the record thing and learning all those songs by myself. And I still don't really know how the guy who would become the other guitarist in our little garage metal band, I still don't know how he got my number. So it just kind of dropped out of the sky, you know, this this random phone call, because I was, you know, standing in the living room and the phone rang, and of course, like I'm I have my guitar on and uh and I'm plugged into an amp. Um, and I get this phone call, and and the guy says, Hey, uh somebody told me that you play guitar, and do you want what do you think about being in a band? I go, uh well, I don't know what what kind of music? And he goes, he's telling me, you know, like metal this and you know, uh Iron Maiden and Jews Priest and stuff. And I go, Do I want to be in a band? Listen to this. And I just like, you know, crash my guitar and he goes, Cool, let's meet up. So uh and the thing is he was in a he was in a town that's like 20 minutes away. So, you know, I just met him at the corner, you know, uh at a McDonald's, and he pulled up and you know, he was driving his parents uh old Cutlass Supreme and he had some dark glasses on, he had the long hair, and so you'd never met this guy? No, wow, no, he just kind of you know just kind of like dropped out of the sky. And um, and oddly enough, that's not the only time that's happened to me because because that's like that was like in the formative years, but later on when I decided to I mean I guess I don't know how much of I decided as opposed to it was decided for me that I was pursuing this music thing 100%, you know, and and I never thought about it as a career as a as opposed to just a preferable way to make a living.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Yeah, I mean, was was there I mean, maybe it wasn't a finite point, but uh you know, were you pursuing other trades or skills that would equate to money?

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Oh no, I totally tried that. I totally tried that. I went to first I went to college. That's funny, my my parents, all I'd heard since I was a kid was be a doctor, be a doctor. You know, my dad always told me, be a doctor, because um, because every woman wants to marry a doctor, and uh doctors make plenty of money, and you know, doctors are needed all around the world, so wherever you go, people will think that that's great, you'll be welcomed, and you know, life will be great. And I just kind of let that wash over me until high school was over, and I decided, you know, I don't really want to be a doctor, and you know what else what else can I do? Right? So my mom goes, well, your uncles in the Philippines, you know, some of them are engineers and teach engineering and science and stuff like that, so maybe you should be an engineer, and I go, Okay. So I had no idea what an engineer did. And I went to college and signed up for pre-engineering classes, and I figured out number one, I can't do calculus. So even after trying to get, even after trying to get some tutoring and stuff, um, I bailed out a calculus class in a couple weeks because I was left behind. And then uh you also had to do engineering graphics, and I can't draw. So I was like, well, I knew an engineer, I knew my mom wasn't talking about driving a train.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Right. But also a cool job, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:06

But I still didn't really know what an engineer did, and uh I found out the hard way, you know, because my dad was like, We spent all this money on your first year of college, and then and then you bailed out. And I go, Well, yeah, I had no idea.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

I didn't know that's what that's the stuff that I had to do.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

I did what you told me, and I, you know, not any good at it. So um, so I, you know, I jumped out of that and I went to I tried to trade school because I was like, well, I'm interested in like electronics and stuff, and maybe I can get into the electronics uh uh area of like music equipment and stuff like that. Again, too much math, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

I'm not especially bad at math, but I don't enjoy it, and just but at least it was adjacent in that you are rocking out. That's all I was thinking of.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Yeah, that's all I was thinking of is like I gotta have something that I can kind of like be adjacent to music because this has obviously become a pretty important thing in my life. So um, but that's you know, I was good for about a year there, couldn't handle that. And then the last thing was actually trying to pursue some music formally, and um I signed up at a state college and went through a year of music theory and music theory lab.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

And did that kill the fun for you?

SPEAKER_03 16:33

It kind of did. Well, it killed the fun for me, you know, from the formal aspect, because the first thing they they teach you is all this like really stuffy, um, you know, like first they're teaching you harmony that that all basically funnels down to, you know, if you're gonna be the next Han Zimmer and like like score for orchestras and stuff, which took was totally disconnected. I like I wanted to take this class to learn how to play guitar better or you know, write music better, or know, understand music better.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Well, and what a strange concept of that their expectation of listen, if you want to be the next one. Well, no, that's the thing is they weren't oh they were they were just but it was kind of an invisible expectation.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

Yeah, they were just like, this is pretty much if you're gonna get a music education, then this is how it's done. And I was just like, this is not related to anything that I want to do, and no disrespect, but you know, and eventually obviously I I came around to the whole music education aspect as it relates to what I wanted to do, but I had to I also had to do that independently, you know. There were, I don't know if you ever saw a series of tapes, uh like videotapes called Starlicks.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Yeah, it it's acting it it sounds familiar.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

You know, like those those types of those types of uh it's an instructional yeah, exactly, you know, and and and of course some of them are cheesy, you know, but it was a lot of the uh you know accomplished players of the day doing instructional videos on VHS. So I am assed a bunch of those. Um I dug around in Guitar for the Practicing Musician magazine, which was the first publication that that that published guitar music in tablature also. So if you could read, you know, if you could read standard notation, you could do that, but they also had the tab there. So you could learn Aussie songs and things like that. And I was like, this is cool. So um, you know, I eventually came around to the to the uh more formal aspects of music uh education just in my own way and from my own direction, which has kind of been a running theme in my life because I don't learn well via books, you know. I gotta get my hands on stuff. I gotta, you know, and I gotta do something that doesn't feel like torture, you know, or like everybody's different, I think, in the way that they're learning.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

Yeah. And and when I arrive, when I finally arrived at, oh okay, well, so I'm not dumb. I just like learning things in a particular way. And if some if people would just leave me alone to do that, I could, you know, eventually get get an education on my own terms.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

So that was, you know, that was mainly how that happened.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

I think it's important that people seek that in their way of that it is an education on their own terms. And sometimes school's not the route for that, and sometimes a traditional teaching is not the route for that. I mean, I rue the day that I way back when got my first and only guitar lesson over at Garrett Park Guitars when they were in a different uh mall. It was where this video game place called Funko Land used to be, it was where Circuit City used to be. My only lesson was there. And uh I just remember, you know, uh having trouble forming the chords and everything, and the guy saying, you know, you gotta strengthen your hands and and do some pinky push-ups and and stuff like that. And I think immediately just as a as a younger child, I was like, but I wanna I wanna be good now. But I'm gonna rock now. I want to rock.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

I didn't come here to to hear about my weak hands. I came here to rock and you need to show me.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

And you know, it it happened in in some form or another, but that was not my path in that way. But part of me still does think, hey, I mean, if I I would be open to exploring that realm again in terms of the you know structured um like more formal rudiments in in that way. I mean, same with drums too. Like there were people that I would hang out with if I was playing a kit, but then I had a friend who was in marching band and they knew the paradiddles and the flam and that stuff, and I couldn't do it. I mean I could hear it by ear, but like in terms of the mechanics of it. So when you're seeking out these um or or when you're jumping around trying to figure out your vocation situation, you're still playing in bands as well, or that's on um hold?

SPEAKER_03 21:26

No, well, I mean it ended up it ended up being very linear, you know, because after I after my numerous uh formal education fails, um I basically moved out of the house. So here's the here's the other here's the other instance of something dropping out of the sky. Because um the funny thing is, I worked at an amusement park for about a year and a half and it was tons of fun. You know, it was really cool. Um And um I had to take a family trip to the Philippines, and my manager said, you know, my job would be waiting there when I came back. I said, because it's a family thing, you know. Um so I come back and then my job wasn't waiting for me. And I was like, oh well, that's a that's a bum deal there. That's not what I was told. So I looked around, you know, and I'm still living in the small Florida town, and I looked around for a long time and couldn't find anything, you know, any kind of work at all. And I just, you know, accepted defeat, and I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna have to work at McDonald's. So I worked fast food for six months um with a you know greasy polyester uniform that you know you could never get the smell out, and just thinking this is the lowest point ever. And um I got a phone call at work from some stranger who basically said the same thing. Hey, I heard you're a pretty good guitar player. Um, I got a band out here and you know, in Sumter County, which is about, I don't know, like an hour and a half away from where I lived. So I have no idea how this guy heard about me because I wasn't even like, you know, I was just playing in some local garage band at the time. And um he goes, Well, I got a I got a cover band, and you know, we play some like bar band music and stuff, but I got a full PA and um, you know, um if if you want to come out this way, I got a I even got a room that, you know, if you want to live in, you know, until until you sort out some living situation. And of course, I'm standing there at work with a phone in my hand, looking around, going with the fryer and the other pair of tongs in the other. Yeah, and I'm just like, well, sure, let's go. Anything to get me out of this like, you know, greasy hell that I'm that I'm you know despondent in because it's it's no not only is it non-musical, it's not even um, you know, it's it's nobody, not everybody wants to be a fast food career person. Yes, you know. So uh I did my time, so I'm empathetic, you know, to the people that that have to do that, and and it's cool, they can hate their jobs, you know. If they mess up my order, I try not to hold it against them these days, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, because you've been there, you get it.

SPEAKER_03 24:48

Exactly. So um, but yeah, so I took that opportunity as a way to move out of my parents' house, and I just threw caution to the wind and lived in this guy's house. He was the drummer, and um, he had a bass player, and we did it as a three-piece. And I sang half the songs, the bass player sang ha the other half of the songs.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

I'd you pick the songs?

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Um, just like whatever was it was sort of like it was sort of bar band rock, but it was stuff that was a little bit more for lack of a better term, hair bandy, yeah, you know, yeah, because that's what was popular at the time. So, so you know, things like so we'd play, we'd play Eric Clapton, but then we would play a rat song, and then we would play uh All right now buy free, but then we'd play Save Me by Cinderella, you know, and we did dress up in some really ridiculous outfits considering where we were playing, but you know it was the style at the time, and not only that, the bikers were like you know, they accepted us. They were like, hey, you know, these guys are wearing makeup and pink spandex, but you know, they're they can rock, you know, it's cool. And and they and they play us some southern rock when we when we want to, we know we want to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

So what was the bar scene like in playing in and around?

SPEAKER_03 26:18

Or well, I mean, that was also some uh no, not rural. You know, I didn't do a lot of rural, but I did do a lot of there was a lot of places that were small town vibe. So um, with that band, we actually got a house gig at a biker bar, and I saw some biker stuff go down, you know. So, so here I am in my pink leopard skin spandex, but then like, you know, there's some people outside having a tussle in the parking lot, and I was just like, I'm gonna go to the other end of the bar. That's rock and roll though. Well, exactly, you know. So um, but yeah, it was, you know, there was it was funny because they had something in Florida at that at the time called the A the A Circuit, right? And the A circuit was was the bigger was the bigger clubs, you know, like 250 to 400 seaters. But they were still just like clubs and bars, you know, just large format. And but but there was the the A Circuit was the biggest the biggest cover bands that were you know that were going around and touring. So they were kind of doing going through the motions like they were rock stars, but they were all just cover bands. But they would show up again, you know, enormous PAs, um, you know, stacks of amps that would be in back of them. Uh it was cool to brag about, oh yeah, we got an 80 parkan like show and blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

I mean, you kind of have to, I think, bring bring the thunder, as it were, if you're emulating somebody else's music, especially from a rock standpoint. Well, sure. It's a big show.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

It it's just interesting to me that these guys are very much, you know, other than not writing their own music, everything else was as if they were rock stars on a, you know, on a more local scale. Because the A circuit was southeastern, right? I think it only went as high as like far north as Virginia, and then like I don't think it ever even made its way to Tennessee, you know. So it's maybe it's a little bit south of Tennessee and then down through like Alabama, Georgia, that that whole thing. So the whole southeastern United States. But there were booking agencies that booked all those big, you know, all those big and and they would just they would book them for like four or five days in in a you know in an area, and then they would go on to the next place, and it was they were technically on tour, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

It is a scene and it is a niche here, one that I'm not um really tapped into too well. Um part of me is is very curious about it more from the perspective of what for for me it's 90s stuff that is the cover band stuff. So you have your grunge Seattle sound, right, etc. things, and and you know, I but I think metal has always had its its place for as long as it has been a genre. Sure. It's interesting now to see people that are coming out doing the the 90s thing um and reliving that for for people in and around my age range now.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Right, yeah, especially you know, if you grew up hearing that on the radio and watching it on MTV, and you know, that's that's the soundtrack to the whole you know early part of your life.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

So it's it's coveted, it's coveted by so many people. And and I understand why. And and there have definitely been moments where I'm like, you know what, I I want to check out this this tribute band or this uh cover band that's doing all the hits from wherever. Um you know it it's a fine line with me for that of like when uh when people start to dress up like them, I'm like, all right, we don't have to go that far, guys.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

So so here's so here's my hot take with that. The first tribute band situation was a musical on Broadway, which was the original Beatlemania. Did you ever hear about that? Yeah, I believe so. Yeah, so that's early. We're talking like we're talking like, well, when I was in New York, so we're talking like 70s, right? And I remember being a little kid walking through Rockefeller Center and then passing this theater that had this enormous, you know, billboard thing on it that was was all these accolades about the most accurate representation of the Beatles since you know the actual beginning. It's like seeing the real thing, right? Well, I mean, when that was the whole thing, was it went through all the eras and and they had all the the appropriate uh clothing of the era, you know, of of all the the you know the sections of time where the Beatles you know reinvented themselves, and so if it's it's it was an extension of that, like tribute bands are an extension of that for you know for as as I knew it. So my my opposite take to yours is if you're gonna be a tribute band, be a tribute, you know, don't just be a cover band that plays covers of one band, you know. So you know, if you're gonna do it, have the outfit, you know, like basically bring your audience the experience that they can't have anymore, right? Which was so so like even the the the other popular ones were like Van Halen tribute bands, right? So yeah, you gotta get a guy that plays like Eddie, you gotta have the Frankenstein guitar, you gotta have they gotta look like them though.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Where do you well? I mean that's part of it.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

I mean, kind of. I mean, you know, they they they got the outfits, yeah. And and of course, your lead singers gotta be doing high kicks and and jump splits like David Lee Roth because you're bringing them the experience that they don't have because or they can't have because Van Halen had already broken up by then, you know, or or you know, they were in the Sammy period and you missed the whole Dave period and you're like, oh, I you know, I want the OG stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

But this is their chance. Right, right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

So, you know, it's like um it's I think it's sometimes I think it's if you're gonna do tribute thing, I think it's lazy if you don't if you don't go, you know, all the way.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Yeah, whole hog.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Yeah, exactly. If you're gonna do it, do it.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

You know, one of the funnier ones that I'll remember, because I hadn't seen too many tribute bands, but when I still lived in Los Angeles, there was a a Ramon's tribute band that I saw. And what was really funny was the guys got up on stage, they're in their regular playing clothes, uh, and they set up all of their gear, and then they went behind some doors and they appeared ten minutes later, and they had the leather jackets and the wigs wings and then it's like people.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

Or Joey had the dark sunglasses and stuff. Yeah. Well, that's that's the thing. It's like bring the experience, and then it is, you know, and then and then you're like, then you're like, at least you have a you have a bar that that has been set by because even regular cover bands have have always had to deal with the whole, well, how can you tell who's a good cover band? Well, if they play the song and it sounds like the record, right? So, you know, I when when we did some gigs in in Vegas, I saw like some cream of the crop cover bands that were disturbingly accurate, but variety cover bands, you know, so they weren't tribute bands, but matter of fact, um, do you know who uh Jimmy Crespo is?

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Uh the name sounds familiar.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

So he was the guitarist that joined Aerosmith when Joe Perry quit. Oh wow, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:17

So when Joe Perry's seen that more and more over the years. Yeah, well, when Prince Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

So when when Joe Perry quit and did his solo thing, the the Joe Perry project, um, they got this guy, Jimmy Crespo, for a small period of time. Um, and then eventually Joe Perry came back. But Jimmy Crespo has uh, you know, at the time had a Vegas variety rock band, cover band, and um a drummer friend of mine, actually our the drummer in our band was like, Hey, I know this guy, I know this drummer in this tribute band, uh, or you know, this this variety band, let's go check him out. And I go, Yeah, cool. So I went and the the level of expertise was obscene because every single one of these guys in the band was was an expert at their own instrument. They all sang and and you know, they went bang, bang, bang from one song to the next, and they all sounded just like the record. No backing tracks, everything live. Um, and and they were doing, you know, one one would be an Aerosmith song, and then another one would be like the bass player sang Rush subdivisions by Rush. And I was like, why subdivisions in Vegas? But I mean, but this guy is just so incredibly good that how you gonna how you gonna fault it? You know, it's like these guys sound just like the recording. So um, you know, and of course, after you see something like that, then if you go to you know your local podunk area and you hear a crappy cover band murdering murdering a song that they should just be practicing more, then you know, there's still, you know, there's still a hierarchy of uh well they set the bar high.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Some of the stuff that you are looking at out there is really setting the bar.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

Yeah, and you don't, you know, you don't realize that there is a bar that's been set somewhere by somebody, and you're just like, oh my god. I mean, I don't I don't even like any of this music, but it's done, it's done so it's done so incredibly well that I can't I have absolutely nothing bad to say about it, and I got nothing but respect for these guys, you know. And they're of course it's Vegas, so they're making money hand over fist, right? And they also get to say, hey, Jimmy Crespo's our you know, our band leader and guitarist, so so he's got legit ties, you know, to a big rock star band, and they're making a great living, and they don't have to tour, you know. Yeah, they can just stay right there. They got a killer house gig. And uh, you know, so it's it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

I I wanna and I know we'll we're we're definitely doing a a time jump with this. Sure. But uh I think in talking about that is a is a good time to to bring up your playing in Flock of Seagulls.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Um well yeah, and so the good the good segue is the guy who brought me who brought me to that cover band situation to watch was our drummer in the seagulls at the time. Oh, okay. So that and that's why we were in Vegas, you know, because we had our own gig going on. Um but I knew you know the s the Seagulls have had a ton of membership turnover since the original guys, and uh in I used to teach at a music store uh in the 90s, and the drummer that taught there got the gig as the Seagulls drummer because he was in a side project with the bass player at the time, and then he um you know, so he he taught drums at that store, and he left and went off to become a rock star. About a year and a half later, he came back and really acted the part of a rock star, and it was pretty obnoxious. And I was like, dude, don't don't pull that with me. It's like you're my co-worker. We had hang out, yeah. We we had co-habit. I I know I know you, you know, and whatever this is, it's not real, you know. So if you want to pull it with somebody else, that's fine, but don't pull it with me because you you were in the room next to me teaching drums. So, but um, but he eventually said, Hey, um the guitar slot for the seagulls is coming open, you know. The last guy that was there was for 10 years, and he's going off to do something else. And um, so do you want to put me in contact, put you in contact with you know, with the guy? Because he actually lived about an hour and a half away from uh from where I was based in Florida. So he lived in Cocoa Beach. And um, I was like, yeah, sure, you know, what what harm can it do? You know, yeah, pretty much. So and I wasn't necessarily a a huge fan, but I was plenty familiar with the music, and you know, it was a very distinctive sound and a very distinctive guitar thing going on with the singles.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

What did your homework look like for that in terms of I mean, for for prepping for an audition for that? I mean, was somebody saying, Hey, learn all of these songs or you already?

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Pretty much, yeah. It was it was, you know, the the the drummer, my drummer friend gave me a list of he's like, here, here's what we're we've been playing in the set. Because he was still he was still in the band at the time. So he's like, here's what we're playing. So I acquired that music and I found a uh like a little like a boss multi-fX unit that I could dial all the sound in for it.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

So um was that hard to figure out? Because I mean this is before the time where you could go on the internet and they have this pedal and they have that pedal. Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

Well, it wasn't too hard because because I knew, you know, I I found out a little bit of history and and you know the sounds are not you know, the sounds were made with 80s gear. So it's not super complicated. It's basically it's basically like a rolling J-Z-120 amp with a rat pedal and an Echoplex, and that's it, you know, tape echo. So that's that's it. So if you can if you can, you know, twist up a kind of you know sound in a multi-fX unit, that kind of, you know, and of course I had the songs, so I would match the sounds, so I had a whole bank of sounds for all those songs ready to go. So the parts aren't hard, but they really fit well together with you know the arrangement of of the music in general. Um, and so but it was super casual. It was definitely not like any kind of cattle call or right, or like they're sitting there behind a desk with their right, right, or you know, and it wasn't like a big line of guys getting ready to go, oh okay, it's send in the next one. You know, it was not like that at all. It was just it was just dude at his house. Um, you know, he had a small recording rig, you know, in his living room, and um I met him, and um I you know, I just plugged my stuff into his mixing console and dialed, you know, dialed up the sound. And he goes, All right, cool. So let's let's see what's going on. So I said, put the song on. And I turned to my preset for that song, played the song note for note. Okay, cool, do another one. So I did three or four of them, and he goes, That all sounds really good. You you want to go? And I go, Yeah, sure. So then that was it. You know, nothing nothing super formal, nothing, you know, it was just it was all very casual.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Do you think, and and I'm gonna I'm gonna throw this your way in in that you can, you know, hopefully compliment yourself in in that right, but do you think you had an edge over the other people that were playing just because of how you learned to play music, how you absorb music, and just what kind of player you were?

SPEAKER_03 42:44

Well, yes what made you stand out from um well the irony is you know what was considered a what was considered a situation that was lacking, which was my formal music music education, right? Um forced me to learn a lot of stuff by ear. So because that's the that's the best way for me to do it. And there weren't any teachers around that could that would would teach me that stuff. So um when I was back in the day learning my Van Halen and my easy disease and my Kiss Riffs and all that stuff, I just did the same thing, you know, with the Siegel's material and just and and and and my whole teaching, like the the focus, I I you know, I did catch up on my on my formal music stuff. So when I taught my students, I could teach them, you know, legit formal music stuff. Yeah. But I kept it fun and I also related it to the music that they liked, you know, which was always the key to me. You know, it's like don't Don't try and teach me a bunch of formal stuff with a bunch of stuffy, you know, classical things that I can't relate to. But but there's still, you know, plenty of music theory that can be applied to, you know, your favorite rock songs. And if you use that as a way to, you know, to to get them interested or keep them interested, then it's less painful, you know.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

I'm pretty blown away by a lot of the schools that I see around. I mean, school of rock, that type of thing, where it's I mean, because I don't I don't think we had that when I was growing up. And it's just so interesting that these institutions exist in that way now of like, hey, you want to be in a rock band and sing some rock songs or sing whatever you want. Here you go. Here's the chance.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

I I mean, I have mixed feelings about it because you know, I spent a little time adjacent. You know, I've always been a private teacher, but uh and also worked at stores uh teaching, but I've been adjacent to to places of that those types of formats. And sometimes it works, sometimes it's sometimes I mean, like on paper it works, but I have not seen you know, and and I'm trying to, you know, keep of the mindset that okay, yeah, these are amateurs, some of them are kids, some of them are adults, you know, and it's fine, and everybody kind of has their hobbyists has the yeah, yeah, sure. You know, so you know, I'm not I'm not gonna be super harsh on them, but um for something that's supposed to be an education that somebody is paying for, I don't necessarily know that they're always getting their money's worth.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Yeah, I mean, and and I would imagine that that has to come down to the the teachers at the end of the day. And and and what and their learning style.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

Well, and what this and what the school, you know, the bar that the school sets for how you know how good how good does is the teacher have to be, and how good are you expecting the band to be? And I always think if I were to work at a place like that, uh, you know, I try not to be hard on the band, but I would be a little bit of a drill sergeant because I'm like, hey, um, this is all fun and games, but you know, if you want to be a good band, you gotta grit teeth and buckle down, you know, know your part, keep your eye on the other guys in the band. You know, don't um, you know, don't drift off on on something. If everybody stay aware of what's going on, stay tight, you know, and do your homework. Don't don't come to practice to learn songs, learn songs on your own, and come to practice to practice songs with the band. Yeah, you know, and and they do sort of structure it as a competition, you know, a loose competition, because you know, they're having these like recitals where all these bands play and somebody wins, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

So some you won the best band, you're the best musician ever.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

Exactly, you know, a strange concept, but yes, it is strange, but there's no denying that if you got a bunch of people that really know their stuff and really practiced it a lot and are a tight band, you just go, hey, you know, well done. Well done.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

And they should be celebrated for that. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 47:42

Sure, you know. Yeah, I mean, yeah, music as competition is very, you know, I don't I don't subscribe to it, and I have a real big problem with elitism, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Well, I I think that actually cues into my my next kind of question, which was actually when I when I first met you, and and if you're feeling comfortable answering it, but um your your reputation had preceded you in that I you were known to me for a time as the guy who was in the flock of seagulls. Right. And when I met you, met you, I was like, this guy doesn't you you don't have a pretense of I was in this band for 15 years? 20 years. 20 years. Yeah, just shy, a few months shy of 20 years, yeah. You don't have that air to you at all.

SPEAKER_03 48:29

So I I mean, I think for those yeah, but you still remember though, you still was like this guy's taking out this big pedal board and stuff. Who does he say? Who does he think he is?

SPEAKER_01 48:43

I was like, here we go. The guy with a big old pedal board.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

Yeah, but it's the smallest pedal board I have.

SPEAKER_01 48:52

I don't know. For me, like two pedals is pushing it too. Sure, sure. It depends on the 49 West, though. Right, right. You've got limited space there. No, but I mean, um I think a lot of people might have some misconceptions of this guy was in that band for 20 years, and so like Yeah, it's a weird what is it? Can you pull back the curtain in in a mindful way that you want of like what what is that, you know?

SPEAKER_03 49:20

Such a big, such a big uh subject. It's it's a whole definite. So so here's so here's how it here's how it falls with me. Um number one, yeah, when I was 16 and I wanted to, you know, get girls and stuff, that's the mind of a 16-year-old. And then you figure out, hey, I actually am connecting with this music thing. So, you know, with my garage metal band, we released and we recorded and released an EP, you know, and it sucked, but you know, but we were kids and we wrote our music, you know. So it is what it is, and you know, from then on, I was always about the music. And um when I ended up joining the seagulls, uh sure the opportunity to travel and tour and play some big audiences, you know, play some big venues and stuff is appealing. But at the end of the day, I'm at my core about making music. And that was my you know, that was my um good versus bad in the Siegel situation because so much of it was just live nostalgia, you know. And um, but then you also like learn a little bit about celebrity, you know, when you're celebrity adjacent. I never consider myself a celebrity because when I was in that band, even though I was there for 20 years, nobody came to see the band to see me, you know, and and most people couldn't, you know, didn't know my name. I was just the guy that was to the left of the guy who they came to see. Um, and other people had been there before me. And of course I found out other people would be there after me. Um, but it's it's since I was always about the music and making music and not just playing it, that's that's always been at the forefront. So um I was never I was a weird kid. I like I like I never got into the the whole trappings of like rocks quote unquote rock stardom. Nobody can see my air quotes, but he's giving air quotes but the you know the whole rock stardom thing, I was never interested in that. It was it was bizarrely entertaining to watch it and you know in front of me and go, oh, that's the kind of stuff you read in like those autobiographical books like what Motley Crew writes about and stuff like that. But none of that stuff ever really interested me, uh you know, interested me. And I was always like, yeah, yeah, but but when are we gonna do new record? You know, but when are we gonna, you know, we have we have demos of songs and stuff. When are we gonna let's do it, you know? And uh the odd thing was it was always sort of dangled in front of us for a really long time, and never, you know, even even though I spent a lot of time with the head guy um doing production and doing demos and you know, demoing out songs, and there's a lot of really good material from that period, you know, like DVDs worth of of demos and stuff that are probably never gonna see the light of day, which is sad because it's it could be worked up to be some quality music.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

Yeah, and that was your input.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

Well, right, and I have some input, uh, but of course, you know, that's probably why it's not being you know gonna see the light of day because um uh somebody likes to exert uh all their control over it, yeah, and doesn't want to share the wealth, yeah, you know, which is fine, it's it's his legacy, he's free to do with it as he wishes. Um, but I didn't think it was cool to keep dangling in in in front of the kind of a the guys in the band and say, hey, we're gonna let's we're gonna do a new album and blah blah and I was like, okay, cool. Well, when?

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Anytime. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

It never happened. So so I was in the band and then I was out of the band and and all through that time period it never happened.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

So but um how do you think that's informed you now in that you you help others with their writing and and recording? So that experience, and I mean cumulatively you're you're teaching as well, and you you clearly have an ear for what you know and what you like, and you know how you're forming other people's sound now.

SPEAKER_03 54:25

Well, I mean apparently I'm a teacher first and foremost. It's something that I've done since 1989 professionally, and it's been my main way of making a living. Even when I was on tour, um I continued to teach when I came home because because touring in a band is isn't always a living wage, and of course, when no no gigs, no paycheck. So, you know, in between you gotta stay working. So um but it just I I learned what it's like to work next to a guy who won a Grammy, and there were some interesting realizations about that that you know you everybody has preconceived notions about what is it like at that level, or you know, what you know, is is it all this and that and the other? And it's it's not as I mean, people are still people, you know, and they have their musical strengths and limitations, and you just figure out what they are and work in that context. Um but one of the I learned a few valuable lessons doing that, and one of them is uh another hot take, which is don't don't care, don't listen too much to your fan base when it comes to creating music. Because when you made the first thing you ever made, there was no fan base, so you created you expressed well the audience was you, right? Well, the yeah, exactly. That was the person you were trying to please, you know, or you that was the the thing that you were trying to express, and so what happened? You expressed that, and your audience found you, and then you know you there thereby um happens the symbiotic relationship of artist and fan base. But what do you do the second and third time around? You know, all of a sudden, now there are third parties involved saying, Oh, we need a hit record, we need a hit song, you know, back in the radio days or whatever. And then all of a sudden that starts informing your art. And now you have one foot in art and another foot in commerce, and you can't just make what you want, you know. And then in an odd in an odd turn, uh with things like uh toxic fan bases, you know, like some of the radical people that like Star Wars that have all kinds of horrible things to say about the prequels or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

It's rough out there.

SPEAKER_03 57:24

Right, no, yeah, exactly. Um, you know, all of a sudden they think you owe them something, and you don't. So you gotta kind of draw your line in the sand and go, you know what? I made this thing and you decided to join me on this journey, and you connected with it, and here we are. But you know what? Now I'm gonna make this next thing. So I don't owe you anything because I didn't owe you anything the first time, and you can either continue to join me on the journey, or if you're not connecting with it, you can hop off. And it's okay, you know. And you know, I have my favorite bands that I've done that with, you know. I love like the first four or five Nine Inch Nails albums. They're like a musical religion to me for you know, for music and expression and for edginess and for production and everything. But then but then, you know, uh an album came out, and I was just like, okay, well, this has kind of lost a little bit of that thing that I liked. So I'm gonna start drifting away, and it's okay, you know. I did my time for the period that I liked, and then I found something else, you know.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

So I think people it's good that they connect and it means something, but I think they can get a little bit entitled and selfish about their favorite bands or their favorite music, and you know, just yeah, it it becomes kind of this I don't know, greed-based liking system.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

Well, yeah, it's very it's very entitled and very selfish.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

When so when you're working with other artists, how do you how do you keep that in mind with it it sounds like you're giving the people that you work with the freedom to kind of come to you with an idea? And how much are you involved in helping to shape that or helping to so as a producer that is um the power's in your hands, depending on who's coming to you?

SPEAKER_03 59:42

Not necessarily because because at the end of the day, it's still a service industry, you know, where whereby they're paying you for a service, you know. But I'm kind of a I'm kind of a you know, fill in the blanks producer, because you know, production can can kind of be interpreted in so many different ways. For some people, hey, a guy that makes beats is a producer, you know, and he is a type of producer, but you know, I'm I'm a different type of producer, and that's kind of been interesting to deal with because when I first came to this area and started telling people I was a producer, they were just like, Yeah, but I don't really make hip hop. And I go, Well, yeah, but I don't either, you know. Well, that's what that's what I'm saying. There's there's a lot of weird like baggage and and um you know misconceptions about when you just blurt out something as uh you know a huge umbrella term as I'm a producer, you know. But in the projects that I work with, it's mainly just somebody has a vision and you know they got a raw they have a raw idea, and I get as many clues as I can about what would what would solidify that vision. And you know, the the end thing being, hey, this is what I was this is what I was hearing in my head, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:17

So and and hopefully it aligns with theirs, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:20

I mean, where no, that's what that's that's what I'm that's what I'm talking, you know, and it's it's a weird, sometimes it's a language thing. It's like, hey, do you if you understand the terms, then you can explain to me. I like things that sound clean and clear, or I like things that sound kind of muddy and grungy, or I like things that sound, you know, dry and in your face versus ambient and washy, you know. So uh if we can if we can kind of meet on those types of terms and I understand the parameters to follow, then I can, you know, I can deliver to them, you know, where where they want to end up. Um, but like I said, I'm a fill-in-the-blanks guy, so we have to determine things like instrumentation and you know, what is it that we're gonna how are we gonna achieve these sounds and you know make sure that these are the the things that you want to hear? And um, whatever needs to happen will happen, you know. So if you have a drummer, then cool. If you don't have a drummer and I need to program something, then that's also cool, you know. And does it need to sound like a real drummer or does is it okay for it to sound programmed? And um, I mean, for guitar and bass stuff, I normally do it myself. But of course, if somebody wants to need guitar in a style that I'm not really great at, then hey, find yourself a finger style jazz guy because I can't do that. You know, that's not my forte, and and I can't even fake it well. So, so if that if you need that in your song, let's find a guy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:08

Um but it's it's the song that that would present that in the way where you're like, this needs this, and then having that conversation with the artist.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:15

Yeah, yeah. You know, yeah, things things, things like instrumentation or things like production style, you know. That's that's the thing that I've really connected with is there's so many production styles, and everybody it's it's not always easy to vocalize about what a why do you like the sound, you know, and things sound a particular way. Uh metal doesn't sound like vintage led Zeppelin, and you know, there's but but what's the difference? And can you describe that to a point where uh you know a producer will understand that? And I always just go, here, just give me your pick a song. What do you like? What do you like about it? Oh, I like the way the singing sounds there. Okay, cool. So it's kind of drying in your face, so let's go with that, you know. So it's just a matter of figuring out, you know, interpreting what the artist is trying to get across and figuring out how to cram it all together just to a point where it makes sense. So but I just think there's a lot of there are a lot of interesting like biases and and um strong feelings about things like everything from auto-tune to AI to you know and and honestly, I don't, you know, like studio magic stuff, right? And I don't I honestly don't really care about any of it because because at the end of the day, if it achieves the goal and nobody gets hurt, right, or whole industries don't fall, then I'm probably okay with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:03

You know, as long as people walk away unscathed in the water.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:06

Well, right, right, you know, um, and I don't enjoy I don't enjoy programming drums, um, but the song needs what the song needs, and if I can't find a drummer or the artist can't find a drummer that can bring what the song needs, I'm the fill-in-the-blanks guy, right? So I gotta figure out well, you know, how do I program this so that it does the job?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

The the musical utility, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:35

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I all all approaches and preferences are valid, and all that matters is what comes out of the speakers at the end. Because, you know, and some people are like, oh, well, such and such, you can't sing like that, or you can't play like that. And I go, Well, that's not my department, you know. My department is to help realize the art. So um if somebody wants to go out and perform stuff, then I guess they better practice, you know? And um, you know, it's that's that's their job. So, you know, my job is to help realize the art. Yeah, and the capital. And right, and some things are some things are about performance, but other things are more about, you know, I I my my um my uh comparison is always, you know, like do you like Star Wars, right? So if you like Star Wars, would you rather see the movie Star Wars? Or would you rather see a play about you know a play of Star Wars, right? So so one is one is you know a little bit more documentary because you're talking about people on a stage acting out Star Wars. But but where's my Imperial Starfighter? You know, the opening scene where the thing comes across you know over your head, the aesthetica. Right, and and the and the bigger than life aspect and the emotional, you know, oh my god, this is just so enormous, the enormity of everything that happens, you know, and and that translates into things like Mutt Lang um Um producing Deaf Leopard and and making the snare drums on hysteria, like every snare drum is an explosion, you know, it's just like a bomb going off, right? It's no longer a snare drum, but that was his that was his inspiration was Star Wars because everything was so incredibly bigger than life and you know, transporting you to a whole galaxy and different civilizations and all this stuff. And he wanted to do the same thing with music. So, how do I make this bigger than life? Oh, well, backing vocals have to be a hundred tracks of somebody singing and not just like the other three guys in the band, or you know, um, guitar tracks have to be, you know, every note punched in on a particular part to get the absolute cleanliness of technique, or just like whatever sort of um thing that got him the results that he wanted, you know, and it was all about being bigger than life, and it's an aesthetic, it's not it's not an organic pearl jammy thing, right? A grungy thing, but it wasn't supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

No, so and those records prove it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:39

Well, and you know, we have we're we're coming into a third generation who knows what pour some sugar on me is, you know. They go, Hey, I know that song. My my grandfather told me that song.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:53

Here's the veil, it'll never be throughout the the annals of history. Yeah. So, you know. I I want to close out with going back, putting you in teacher mode, because I feel like we have I I have this conversation with other people on here um about learning styles and people saying, like, oh, I I just I don't have the music gene in me. I I want to ask you for somebody who's always said I want to learn to play fill in the blank, but they they haven't quite gotten around to it. What what would you what would you say to them as a teacher?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:30

I mean, you know, I s I still teach new students all the time, so I this is not a this is not a conversation that's ever been that far away. Um I you know, I tell them there isn't any like you don't most people that are good on an instrument by and large are not prodigies, but all they did was put in the work, you know, you know that whole like 14,000 hour thing that they talk about, you know. I mean, and then of course it doesn't have to be 14,000 hours. I never time myself. Right, right. But um, but yeah, that's you gotta put in the work. And guitar is a weird instrument in that respect because because you can put in a good solid six weeks of work and you know, learn a bunch of open chords and stuff and get them pretty well. But then, you know, and especially in the case of an adult that has to take a work trip for a couple of weeks and then comes back and then forgets like 75% of what they learned and they totally backslid. And I go, sorry, that's kind of what happens, you know. So as long as you even as long as you just like keep it there, you know, like we were talking earlier, keep your tools at the ready so you can just grab your guitar and go, you know what, I got 15 minutes, so I'm just gonna go over my chords so I don't forget them, and then put it away and then go, you know, go on your work trip or whatever. As long as you keep the effort there, then you will move along, you know. And then obviously everybody basically starts in the same place, but you know, once you start getting good at basic chords and learning basic strumming patterns and stuff, and then I go, Hey, all right, so we got some basics down. Where are we gonna point this? Um, what what's your goal? You know, oh, I want to strum along with such and such. And I go, okay, cool. So here's here are the raw ingredients of what you need to have under your belt to get there. And now it's your job to do the work. I'm only here once a week to be your coach, to be your guide, to correct bad technique, to you know, move your finger a quarter of an inch at a different angle and say, Oh, you can get an F chord, you know? Things like that. You know, I've I've had it's funny, you know, if if people talk about the F chord like it's you know, it's the it's the world's largest speed bump with guitar, because you know, it's it's it's partly a bar chord or could be a full bar chord. And in my decades of teaching, I've never had a student not learn it. So most of the time it takes two weeks, you know, maybe-ish, three weeks, if they really put in the work. I had an older gentleman who whose hands were a little bit stiff, you know, he kept at it. Worst case scenario of all my teaching, six weeks, but he got it. So as long as you do it, it will come no matter, no matter what. I haven't had anybody, you know, the the only time it doesn't come is if they quit. So you know, or if some something else becomes a priority. So as long as you make it a priority and do the work, then it'll get there. You know, there are so few musical prodigies and just so many more people that did the work. Got it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:15

Love it. Thank you so much, Joe. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:17

I appreciate this time, man. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:21

And if we could find a channel, thanks so much for listening. You can follow us on Instagram for show announcements and other episodes. And if you dig the artist stuff, give them a follow. Give them a like. And if you want to go the extra mile, check them out at one of their shows, buy their merch, keep the scene alive. And I'll see you out there. Take care.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:47

And there's only so much time. There's only so much left for you and nice.